Takeshi Tajima, Takeshi Mutaguchi, and Hiroyuki Ono Discuss Brand Business and Sociality
2019.08.25
On July 20th, the second opening event was held to commemorate the opening of SIRI SIRI's roadside store. Takeshi Tajima (fascinate/branding director), Takeshi Mutaguchi (IKEUCHI ORGANIC), and Hiroyuki Ono (SIRI SIRI co-representative) talk about "brand business and sociality".
What is brand sociality?
Ono: My name is Ono, co-representative of SIRI SIRI. In 2016, I became the co-president of SIRI SIRI. I am mainly in charge of business aspects such as fund management and team building including human resources.
It has been 13 years since SIRI SIRI was launched, and since then, designer Okamoto has taken time and effort to create products by conveying ideas to craftsmen. The number of customers has increased significantly, but it is not something that can be mass-produced. Therefore, I thought about how to increase production without changing the current form, and decided to train craftsmen who could cooperate with production, with the thought of passing on crafts and manufacturing to the next generation. In addition, we also retailed at direct sales stores and online, and promoted the creation of a system that makes it easy to give back to craftsmen, and the current form of business was created.
I don't think there are many places where you can specifically ask about the behind the scenes of this brand business, so I would like to provide you with useful information. Please introduce yourself one by one.
Mutaguchi: Hello. This is Mutaguchi from IKEUCHI ORGANIC. Our company is one of about 100 Imabari towel manufacturers, and our philosophy is "maximum safety and minimum environmental impact". All materials are organic cotton, industrial wastewater is recycled to a level that can be discharged into the sea to reduce environmental impact, and products are internationally certified to be safe for babies to eat. But the biggest strength is the high quality. Towels are often thought of as consumables, but we manufacture products that can be used for 5 to 10 years.
Actually, I changed jobs from Amazon to my current company four years ago. It was a company with attractive products and uncompromising craftsmanship. Currently, while conducting domestic and overseas corporate sales as a sales manager and public relations manager, he also operates an owned media called “Ikeuchi people” ( https://ikeuchinahito.com/ ). thank you.
Ono: We have a wide range of products, such as producing at our factory in Imabari and selling them at our own stores in Omotesando and Kyoto. Mr. Tajima, please.
Tajima: My name is Tajima. Until 2016, I worked for Patagonia apparel for 20 years and was in charge of the mail order department for a long time. While I was personally involved in environmental issues and the anti-nuclear movement, I realized that even if Patagonia's sales were increased tenfold, social problems would not be reduced to one-tenth. If we increase the number of companies by 100, society may change." So I started a side business as a consultant. After changing jobs and becoming independent, I am now a consultant. We define Lovable Company as a company like Patagonia, which is loved by both employees and customers and has both sociality and business potential.
Ono: For the past six months, the SIRI SIRI sales team has been learning from Mr. Tajima how to think about the SIRI SIRI identity and the social value that will follow, and how to create and practice a culture that leads to problem solving, in addition to marketing to improve sales. is. By the way, Mr. Tajima, what kind of things do you do in concrete terms?
Tajima: I am helping to become a company that is loved by customers and employees. The balance between social and business is important. Also, the sense of fulfillment of the working staff is very important, but I often see cases where the company's corporate philosophy and messages to the outside world remain the same even though the company has grown and the stage has changed, causing confusion in the field. After solving the problem, we will change the system so that employees can feel that they are happy to work here. In that process, the difference in direction becomes clear in the midst of change, and some employees may resign, but I think that is also a necessary change.
Ono: As a company grows, it begins to have a personality, and it no longer belongs to the president or founder. Even the president himself may not be able to imagine how he will be viewed by others and what kind of value he can create. At IKEUCHI ORGANIC, where Mr. Mutaguchi works, do you discuss the social nature of the brand and how it should be?
Mutaguchi: Mr. Ikeuchi, the president of the company, sends a message about the environment and business to all employees at the morning assembly every morning. Our company was originally a local industry, and many of the employees who joined our company in recent years were attracted by the philosophy and sophisticated branding after Mr. Kenmei Nagaoka's rebranding. Some people are working, and the current situation is that there are employees with various backgrounds as a local industry company.
Ono: For a small company that does everything from production to sales in-house, if you make drastic changes, something could go bankrupt.
Mutaguchi: Yes. When I first joined the company, I tried to change things right away and communicated them directly, but some employees were confused by the sudden changes, and that only created conflict. So now I'm slowly changing the way I do things.
Ono: Do you have any specific examples of changes in the social nature of your employees as a result of the measures you have taken so far?
Mutaguchi: I don't know if it's a social aspect, but there is one thing that has greatly increased the motivation of our employees. By introducing the factory and craftsmen on the website, which had not been made public until then, we received requests from customers and decided to hold a factory tour event in 2017. Despite the fee, many fans from all over the country participated, and it seems that the craftsmen were very motivated by receiving words of gratitude from customers and seeing their smiles. Since then, we have gradually increased the number of systems that directly connect customers and creators.
How to balance the business and social aspects of a company
Ono: Mr. Tajima always says, ``It's hard to create business if it's a company that starts with a social aspect.'' How can we improve?
Tajima: As Patagonia's name recognition increases as a brand that successfully balances business and sociality, I think there are many people who want to learn from Patagonia's recent actions and try to reproduce it in their own company. But I think it's better to learn about the changes in the 10 years since 1998, when Patagonia was still immature, rather than the current Patagonia.
First of all, when I joined the company in 1997, it was a time when awareness of outdoor sports apparel was high, rather than awareness of being a company that solved environmental problems. After that, the session with the US head office progressed, and the viewpoint of environmental conservation increased even within the Japanese branch. After that, the number of staff who were highly conscious of environmental protection increased as the evaluation as a social business increased from the outside, leading to the phenomenon that the commitment to outdoor sports was relatively weak within the company. Founder Yvon Chouinard, who felt a sense of crisis about this situation, updated his corporate philosophy in 2004, redefining it as "a brand for outdoor sports rather than a company dealing with environmental problems", and focused on the so-called business feasibility. It will lead to a decision to change.
Of course, we did not take lightly our environmental protection measures, as we continue to implement them at the highest standards in the world. However, as a result of these efforts, many innovative products have been born and our business has expanded. In addition, we have experienced environmental impact in product manufacturing and improved the working environment at production sites. This leads to the establishment of a secured brand. In December 2018, the corporate philosophy was updated again, and we are proceeding to the next stage. Business and sociality are not separate things, they need to be considered together, and there is an order to things.
Ono: Because it tends to be an indulgence to be forgiven socially. Patagonia has employees who are more environmentally conscious than Mr. Tajima, and we are launching a "vote for planet" campaign that conveys the importance of participating in elections with the company as a whole. It's amazing to have people with different ideas in the company.
Tajima: Citizens' activities are popular in the United States, and many of our employees are active. It is important that not only the founder but also all the staff working there are activists, and that culture has been created around Yvon, so I take great care of it.
Ono: Are you a person with a sense of balance to begin with? It seems both unconscious and strategic.
Tajima: Strategically, I think we are committed to taking action to realize the world we want to create. We are creating a system purely for what is necessary and fostering a culture. The same can be said for the entire organization, for example, there are regular opportunities for dialogue called open forums, and everyone in the company is able to express their opinions and suggestions to Yvon and the CEO, and we are making good use of them. In that sense, I think hiring is very important.
Ono: I see. How is it in Japan? At IKEUCHI ORGANIC, how do you reconcile and raise the awareness of old employees who joined the company because of their awareness of the local industry and new employees who joined the company because they were attracted to the brand and philosophy?
Mutaguchi: Right now, I'm having the hardest time. We tell our customers about the product itself and its background, but we try to feed back the customer's reaction to the head office as much as possible. Twenty years ago, we were mainly OEM, so we couldn't see our customers' faces, but now we have so many enthusiastic fans, so I try to talk to them and get them to understand. I try to visit the Imabari head office as much as possible and ask about sales and production, and I am gradually closing the distance.
Ono: Is that a company-wide thing? as an individual?
Mutaguchi: It's still on an individual level. In addition to the morning assembly, I would like to create a place where representatives can convey their thoughts, and a place where employees can talk to each other across departments. In addition, we are about to start activities to connect regional bases.
Ono: What do you think would happen if an indigenous company, IKEUCHI ORGANIC, adopted Patagonia's interactive approach? Japanese-style companies are not accustomed to discussions, and there is a feeling that they do not interfere with others.
Mutaguchi: Yes. I think it will take time for everyone to have an open discussion. For example, it seems necessary to think of a way to make people less concerned about class and age, such as having a third party who has nothing to do with us join in and have a conversation in a small group.
Ono: In a small company, there is also the aspect that human relationships are the basis of management. There are situations where personalities and opinions cannot be separated if only the parties involved are involved, and there are times when decisions are made based on likes and dislikes rather than correctness. Can Japanese organizations become interactive?
Tajima: The company we are helping with has regular opportunities for dialogue. Therefore, we will confirm the mission that is our reason for existence and the vision that should be realized in 10 years, and will create and update the values that the organization emphasizes. There are always people who can't let go of their past trends and values, especially those who have a long history with the company. I can understand your feelings very well, so I think it is very important to have a forum for dialogue on management issues at various layers, including those outside the company.
Ono: There should be a dilemma in the company where there are people who want to pursue sociality and people who want to pursue business, but for some reason they try to eliminate it. With people tending to have the same direction, it seems like a big turning point is whether or not we can reexamine how contradictory things can be.
One of the ideas for corporate growth is that Patagonia has teamed up with a consulting company called PwC to create a life cycle industry that includes apparel raw material procurement, factory working environments, distribution and sales floors, and recycling processes. creating a standard. Walmart co-created this industry standard, which now has the effect that its supplier, Coca-Cola, has had to follow suit in terms of branding. Even America's largest companies are forced to follow Patagonia's standards.
Such dynamic changes have yet to occur in Japanese society. I think that both IKEUCHI ORGANIC and SIRI SIRI have ways of constructively changing society. Create an industry standard, lobby, raise distribution standards, and create an improvement cycle. Patagonia's method is rational, and if it can be done in Japan, even a small brand can leave a big impact.
Tajima: Patagonia has created standards in various industries, one of which is the Sustainable Apparel Coalition, which aims for a sustainable apparel industry. Instead of keeping it closed, we decided to make it better by sharing it with everyone, including our competitors. rice field.
Ono: It is significant that it is an industry standard that was born from the actions of a single company. It would be nice if we could define what a good company should be in the industry, get together and donate resources and time, and slowly bring it to fruition.
Importance of reframing and context
Tajima: Speaking of SIRI SIRI, I think the most important thing for brands is how they can reframe their roles. I think SIRI SIRI started because of Mr. Okamoto's allergy to metals, but customers probably don't buy it because they are allergic to metals. You can get courage from Mr. Okamoto and the way the brand should be, and you can wear it when you take on challenges. I think it's being reframed into a brand where women can release their own energy. However, this kind of reframing is faster for customers, and people in the company often do not notice new value unexpectedly.
Ono: Yes!
Tajima: People who came in from the outside noticed the value of the brand and came in, but the people inside weren't aware of it at all.
Mutaguchi: That's true. As you mentioned earlier, we are often featured in terms of organic and sustainable aspects, but in our normal customer service, we do not talk specifically about environmental aspects or sustainability from the beginning. This is because most customers buy towels because they want to live a rich life. The most important thing is how to create valuable products for customers. The other day, Ikeuchi's column titled "Discomfort with selling stories" was published in note's IKEUCHI ORGANIC column . Rather than telling stories about sustainability and good for the environment, it is more important to make good products properly and what kind of value they can give to customers. I think that expanding that is what we should do.
Ono: Until a few years ago, it was said that it was important to sell through stories. It's like the harsh production environment in developing countries has been improved. However, from the consumer's point of view, even though they want to live surrounded by good things and things they like, it is somewhat unreasonable to buy them because they have a social story. You can buy perishables and food, but it's not just about clothes and daily necessities.
Tajima: Lately, we often talk about “Content is king, context is queen”. In the marketing industry, "the king obeys the queen," the story ends after being consumed, but the context is created daily by fostering the culture within the company. And since it is also the source of staff's daily customer service and management decisions, I think it is important how to create a context. Even if it's the same story, the story that was created with the intention of making it and the story that was born from the context are completely different.
Ono: The depth is completely different. A mere story can only be a "good story" for the purpose of telling, but a story born from context has the twists and turns and substance of the brand.
Tajima: Yes. Whether or not there are owners and designers who can face each other thoroughly will make a big difference. As a result, Patagonia's profit margins and sales began to grow rapidly around 30 years after its founding.
Ono: Is this year the 46th anniversary of your founding? It gives me courage when I hear the time span of such a company. Nowadays, it's easy to focus on success at a young age, but I'm thinking about my goal in my life as a manager around the age of 60. When it comes to running a company, there are times when you shouldn't be in a hurry, but if you think about it that way, you can wait without panicking. I believe that a company that is carefully built will last longer, and that it will be easier for people to want to take over the business. I'm actively telling people that it's okay to take care of company management and brand building, but people tend to think that it's a story about the future that doesn't even exist. That's why I'm grateful for the stories of predecessors like Patagonia.
Tajima: Good. In fact, I am currently helping a company that has been around for over 100 years. I've been trying to make myself and the people around me happy, so it's never about the world. Having worked for a company like Patagonia that wants to improve society for 20 years, I can honestly say that there are limits to what Japan can do. I came to think that it would be nice to have a company centered on love for people, just like a mission-based company or a vision-based company. Specialize in making people around you happy, and that will eventually make someone happy. I realized that this is how the company should be, and that it is also a way to express yourself.
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How can a brand like SIRI SIRI leave a new impact on Japan in the future? It was an opportunity to reconsider the relationship between strengths and sociality.
Written by Sanae Kimura
Photo Go Itami